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Connor
18 hours
100% with cecil on the repurposing monsters thing (not that darkwing 2.0 was even a monster) but man did he just escalate the shit out of this situation.
No
23 hours
I do actually think Mark was being an idiot here, and a bit of a hypocrite, and I do agree with Cecil on the whole, but Cecil also did an awful job handling this situation
Gabriel
4 days
In all honesty both Cecil and Mark handled that situation horribly
Obsidianfox
14 days
It's actually crazy for immortal to call them children while also dating Kate.
Eli
16 days
Don't forget. Nolan was a hero for 20 years before slaughtering the best heroes on the planet. Cecil's paranoia is justified. He could of tried harder to deescalate with Mark, but I think he was genuinely scared. I've re-watched this episode several times and I can't help but feel like Mark was being unreasonable.
smilingknight
20 days
hahaha I love the "are we the baddies" reference
Grant
21 days
when I watch this episode again it's like that one saying Captain Price said and it makes me understanding Cecil. "We get dirty, and the world stays clean. that's the mission here."
TNRdragon
1 month
funny how both shapesmith and sonic have racecar beds, plus their both voiced by the same person
iKirbeeburgr
1 month
I think Mark's crashout was kinda justified, because Mark's whole issue was with the cyborgs and Darkwing but then Cecil starts threatening him, like You're not gonna threaten me and tell me you put a thing in my head to keep me in line and think i'm just going to obey like, i'm not your dog you can control with a shock collar.
And i get why Mark is mad about Sinclair's robots, but the issue wasn't the technology itself, but how it was being used... It reminds me of Poppy Playtime;
"Scientific progress should ALWAYS be to the benefit of humanity. Progress made simply for the sake of progress often winds up hurting us more than it helps"
Very similar to Poppy Playtime actually.... Sinclair acted like he was bettering humanity, but kidnapping and experimenting on human test subjects and turning them into those things wasn't helping anyone but his own ego.
Havoc
1 month
Immortal didn't bail. He was nearly forced to leave to clear his head. Fuck kate tho
1 replies
RancorSnp
1 month
I mean, she still would have been of no use on the front lines until her she got her head cleared. Being a superhero is not a job you can do while having any doubts, one second of hesitation can cost people their lives. If she's not there, they will send someone else. If she was there, people would rely on her and any casualties would be her fault for doing the job while not in the right state of mind
wikitiki3
1 month
Kate is the only one who left without a word. Immortal got put on forced vacation by Cecil because of how badly Kate's "death" affected him
Darc
1 month
Mark is kind of being a hypocrite here.
2 replies
RancorSnp
1 month
Mark is very much the one in the wrong here - he's a young and stupid kid, though Cecil did do a terrible job navigating the conversation, which he should have done better as a full grown adult. But yeah, if we are looking at who is right and who is wrong - Cecil is the correct one.
Icy
1 month
Yeah he was in the wrong and Cecile did give him several attempts to just go and try and calm down
1 replies
Connor
1 month
You can't ask someone to calm down as you do everything in your power to piss him off. Cecil was acting like the woman in the 'get out of my car now' video.
Scarlet
1 month
i understand where both sides are coming from
TheLastRunicorn
1 month
I find it interesting how Cecil said Nolan was too soft on Mark. Imagine if he knew about all the universes where he wasn't, I wonder if he would rethink his methods. I feel like Cecil kind of has a bit of a boomer mentality that you have to be tough on people for the best results and being even a little bit trusting is more dangerous than being controlling. I do agree you need to make tough decisions in a job like that, but he does tend to be way too invasive when it comes to getting his point across. I do really love Cecil as a character though
Flux
1 month
They have already picked up this show for season 4 and 5 so yeah this isn't getting canceled anytime soon
That
1 month
Honestly I still believe this was all Mark's fault. Mark went to him yelling and smashing his desk saying he wont leave until he gets what he wants, I believe Cecil felt actually threatened. Mark knows damn well the Viltrumites are coming any day know. Cecil is trying to do what he can to prepare for that day and here comes Mark trying to preach ethics while he himself has blood on his hands too (justified blood or not) he is a hypocrite. I feel Cecil is a necessary leader(kind of like Churchill in WW2).
4 replies
Darc
1 month
100% it's marks fault. He was unwilling to listen to Cecil at all and continued to make threats. Cecil defends his life and suddenly he's the villain and then Mark foes that bullshit where he tells Cecil he will kill him? This is dumber than all that crap with amber in season 1
Purported74
1 month
As someone who has stewed over this part of the story since 2008, it is 100% on both of them, and to add onto that, they did an amazing job giving more understanding from the other characters that show why both (Mark and Cecil) are right and wrong. This is a universe where you cant be like Superman and Spider-Man, you can hope and strive to be a hero like that but you'll eventually have an accident or learn to work past having to be gray in your morals at certain points.
Ranginald
1 month
Cecil is the kind of guy history will say was a great man
TheLastRunicorn
1 month
I wouldn't say all marks fault, like yes he was in the wrong but he also has personal trauma with what Cecil was doing. And Cecil's response to his anger was to surround himself with the very things that was triggering Marks anger. Yes, Mark was being threatening but Cecil also had premeditated fear that escalated the situation instead of trusting Mark not to attack him in the first place. He shouldn't have lead Mark into that room, he could've kept talking or teleport away and wait for him to cool down. But he didn't. Mark was definitely not thinking rationally and Cecil has a right to defend himself, but how he did it was honestly very stupid. I would say they were both equally in the wrong. They both have opposing beliefs that they went too far to defend and uphold.
100% with cecil on the repurposing monsters thing (not that darkwing 2.0 was even a monster) but man did he just escalate the shit out of this situation.
I do actually think Mark was being an idiot here, and a bit of a hypocrite, and I do agree with Cecil on the whole, but Cecil also did an awful job handling this situation
In all honesty both Cecil and Mark handled that situation horribly
It's actually crazy for immortal to call them children while also dating Kate.
Don't forget. Nolan was a hero for 20 years before slaughtering the best heroes on the planet. Cecil's paranoia is justified. He could of tried harder to deescalate with Mark, but I think he was genuinely scared. I've re-watched this episode several times and I can't help but feel like Mark was being unreasonable.
hahaha I love the "are we the baddies" reference
when I watch this episode again it's like that one saying Captain Price said and it makes me understanding Cecil. "We get dirty, and the world stays clean. that's the mission here."
funny how both shapesmith and sonic have racecar beds, plus their both voiced by the same person
I think Mark's crashout was kinda justified, because Mark's whole issue was with the cyborgs and Darkwing but then Cecil starts threatening him, like You're not gonna threaten me and tell me you put a thing in my head to keep me in line and think i'm just going to obey like, i'm not your dog you can control with a shock collar.
And i get why Mark is mad about Sinclair's robots, but the issue wasn't the technology itself, but how it was being used... It reminds me of Poppy Playtime;
"Scientific progress should ALWAYS be to the benefit of humanity. Progress made simply for the sake of progress often winds up hurting us more than it helps"
Very similar to Poppy Playtime actually.... Sinclair acted like he was bettering humanity, but kidnapping and experimenting on human test subjects and turning them into those things wasn't helping anyone but his own ego.
Immortal didn't bail. He was nearly forced to leave to clear his head. Fuck kate tho
I mean, she still would have been of no use on the front lines until her she got her head cleared. Being a superhero is not a job you can do while having any doubts, one second of hesitation can cost people their lives. If she's not there, they will send someone else. If she was there, people would rely on her and any casualties would be her fault for doing the job while not in the right state of mind
Kate is the only one who left without a word. Immortal got put on forced vacation by Cecil because of how badly Kate's "death" affected him
Mark is kind of being a hypocrite here.
Mark is very much the one in the wrong here - he's a young and stupid kid, though Cecil did do a terrible job navigating the conversation, which he should have done better as a full grown adult. But yeah, if we are looking at who is right and who is wrong - Cecil is the correct one.
Yeah he was in the wrong and Cecile did give him several attempts to just go and try and calm down
You can't ask someone to calm down as you do everything in your power to piss him off. Cecil was acting like the woman in the 'get out of my car now' video.
i understand where both sides are coming from
I find it interesting how Cecil said Nolan was too soft on Mark. Imagine if he knew about all the universes where he wasn't, I wonder if he would rethink his methods. I feel like Cecil kind of has a bit of a boomer mentality that you have to be tough on people for the best results and being even a little bit trusting is more dangerous than being controlling. I do agree you need to make tough decisions in a job like that, but he does tend to be way too invasive when it comes to getting his point across. I do really love Cecil as a character though
They have already picked up this show for season 4 and 5 so yeah this isn't getting canceled anytime soon
Honestly I still believe this was all Mark's fault. Mark went to him yelling and smashing his desk saying he wont leave until he gets what he wants, I believe Cecil felt actually threatened. Mark knows damn well the Viltrumites are coming any day know. Cecil is trying to do what he can to prepare for that day and here comes Mark trying to preach ethics while he himself has blood on his hands too (justified blood or not) he is a hypocrite. I feel Cecil is a necessary leader(kind of like Churchill in WW2).
100% it's marks fault. He was unwilling to listen to Cecil at all and continued to make threats. Cecil defends his life and suddenly he's the villain and then Mark foes that bullshit where he tells Cecil he will kill him? This is dumber than all that crap with amber in season 1
As someone who has stewed over this part of the story since 2008, it is 100% on both of them, and to add onto that, they did an amazing job giving more understanding from the other characters that show why both (Mark and Cecil) are right and wrong. This is a universe where you cant be like Superman and Spider-Man, you can hope and strive to be a hero like that but you'll eventually have an accident or learn to work past having to be gray in your morals at certain points.
Cecil is the kind of guy history will say was a great man
I wouldn't say all marks fault, like yes he was in the wrong but he also has personal trauma with what Cecil was doing. And Cecil's response to his anger was to surround himself with the very things that was triggering Marks anger. Yes, Mark was being threatening but Cecil also had premeditated fear that escalated the situation instead of trusting Mark not to attack him in the first place. He shouldn't have lead Mark into that room, he could've kept talking or teleport away and wait for him to cool down. But he didn't. Mark was definitely not thinking rationally and Cecil has a right to defend himself, but how he did it was honestly very stupid. I would say they were both equally in the wrong. They both have opposing beliefs that they went too far to defend and uphold.