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I also thing it’s important to note that Zuko is seeing first-hand the results of his people and his predecessors war. Even when he comes to the rescue, he’s hated for who he is, families are torn apart right in front of him, young girls bear scars like him, bullies roam freely spreading terror. You guys were right about him being humbled, he’s being forced to confront his own history and identity while everyone around him actively despises who he is because of a war his people started.
I hope someone explained the turtle duck mom line to you guys. Y’all missed it by a second, and it’s basically a hint that Ursa took action to prevent Zuko from being killed by hatching a plan with Ozai, in which Azulon dies (possibly at Ursa’s hands), Ozai becomes FireLord, and Zuko lives while his mother is banished, with no one ever knowing what happened to her.
For guys who spend so much time pausing the show every two minutes to overthink and speculate about a reveal that is about ten seconds from being revealed, it surprises me that you don’t seem to have spent a lot of time thinking about the environment Azula grew up in. She grew up in exactly the same abusive situation Zuko did. It just manifested differently.
Think about it: Azula was born with natural talent for firebending. Zuko was not. Remember when Zuko said that his father Ozai said of them that Azula was born lucky, while Zuko was lucky to be born. What this means in the first place is that Azula didn’t have to struggle and fight to win either her father or grandfather’s approval. Zuko on the other hand had to fight and train a lot harder than she ever did to develop the same level of skill. That alone means that Ozai was disappointed in his son, who as the firstborn is meant to be the heir. So from the start, Ozai always preferred Azula, and thus gave her more positive attention. The whole time, Ursa (Zuko and Azula’s mother) sees this and steps in to try to give Zuko the love and attention he’s not getting from his father. Beyond that, Ursa is also an inherently decent and compassionate person, whereas Ozai was always inherently ruthless and unforgiving of perceived weakness. So from the very beginning, Zuko is despised by his father while his mother tries to make up for it; but the flip side is that Azula is showered with her father’s approval, and not getting much positive counterbalance from Ursa because their mother is too focused on Zuko.
That’s one of the core takeaways here: Azula received more positive attention from Ozai while Zuko received more positive attention from Ursa. Meanwhile, Ozai is hateful toward Zuko; and Ursa, while not hateful toward Azula by any means, at the very least doesn’t give Azula the same amount or depth of attention that she does to Zuko. And all the while, what Azula SEES happening before her is that her father appreciates and rewards ruthless, cold behavior while scorning compassion. Specifically, she sees how Ozai treats Zuko for demonstrating the compassion that Ursa works to instill in him. And of course Azula saw their father permanently scar his own son’s face in front of a large crowd of people – and for the sin of objecting to the heartlessness of deliberately treating fresh soldier recruits as expendable cannon fodder. When he was 13 years old no less – which would have made Azula 11. (The series opens with Zuko being 16 and Azula being 14, obviously). The girl has lived her ENTIRE life watching her father punish decency and reward cruelty. It’s not exactly surprising that she’s going to internalize the lesson that the only way to survive is to embrace cruelty for its own sake.
This is a mild spoiler from the comics, but one thing that comes out is that Ursa inadvertently triggered some of the abuse that Zuko lived with. She and Ozai had some kind of fight where she blurted out that she wished Ozai was not Zuko’s father, and Ozai promised her that from that moment forward he would make sure to treat Zuko as if he WASN’T his father. We can all see how well that went for Zuko. There’s also a VERY strong implication from the comics that Ozai was extremely abusive toward Ursa herself, which both Azula and Zuko would have seen.
All which is to say, yes, obviously Azula is messed up. She is profoundly messed up. But she’s also a 14 year old KID and she didn’t turn out to be a psychotic murderbot for no reason. She’s just as much a victim of egregious abuse as Zuko is.
Azula takes pleasure in tormenting others, she’s shown this characteristic throughout the entirety of the show without wavering once. She is a psychopath in every feasible way. And if that’s not enough then how about don’t be an abuser apologist.
whilst I completely agree Azula is bad, the guys totally have a hard time understanding more complex characterizations unless it was specifically handed to them in the dialogue. I realized the same thing with a lot of the Steven Universe and owl house characters. But also, I like to see their takes and analysis even when they’re right or wrong, subjectively or opinion wise because it’s what makes watching them interesting and fun seeing how someone else perceive these different things watching it for the first time.
Also, they often say that us viewers can only say this because we’ve seen the show and know how it ends, which is true for some cases but a lot of the time it isnt. You just missed something, or interpreted differently when you first saw it/ misinterpreted/misunderstood which is okay to admit, but a lot of these things aren’t deeply rooted that you need to dig deep or finish the show to understand its meant to be understandable. (if that makes sense)
Yeah but victims can still become abusers, she may be a product of her family’s sick values but people are allowed to dislike her for her actions and call her out for being a twisted individual. She may be 14 years old but 14 years old can still be held accountable for their actions no matter who influenced them.
I’m pretty sure these guys are well aware that it isn’t her fault she’s this way. But she is this way and whatever she does by her own free will she will be criticized for her actions. Next time drop the attitude and realize that ur faves are not above criticism.
I also thing it’s important to note that Zuko is seeing first-hand the results of his people and his predecessors war. Even when he comes to the rescue, he’s hated for who he is, families are torn apart right in front of him, young girls bear scars like him, bullies roam freely spreading terror. You guys were right about him being humbled, he’s being forced to confront his own history and identity while everyone around him actively despises who he is because of a war his people started.
I hope someone explained the turtle duck mom line to you guys. Y’all missed it by a second, and it’s basically a hint that Ursa took action to prevent Zuko from being killed by hatching a plan with Ozai, in which Azulon dies (possibly at Ursa’s hands), Ozai becomes FireLord, and Zuko lives while his mother is banished, with no one ever knowing what happened to her.
For guys who spend so much time pausing the show every two minutes to overthink and speculate about a reveal that is about ten seconds from being revealed, it surprises me that you don’t seem to have spent a lot of time thinking about the environment Azula grew up in. She grew up in exactly the same abusive situation Zuko did. It just manifested differently.
Think about it: Azula was born with natural talent for firebending. Zuko was not. Remember when Zuko said that his father Ozai said of them that Azula was born lucky, while Zuko was lucky to be born. What this means in the first place is that Azula didn’t have to struggle and fight to win either her father or grandfather’s approval. Zuko on the other hand had to fight and train a lot harder than she ever did to develop the same level of skill. That alone means that Ozai was disappointed in his son, who as the firstborn is meant to be the heir. So from the start, Ozai always preferred Azula, and thus gave her more positive attention. The whole time, Ursa (Zuko and Azula’s mother) sees this and steps in to try to give Zuko the love and attention he’s not getting from his father. Beyond that, Ursa is also an inherently decent and compassionate person, whereas Ozai was always inherently ruthless and unforgiving of perceived weakness. So from the very beginning, Zuko is despised by his father while his mother tries to make up for it; but the flip side is that Azula is showered with her father’s approval, and not getting much positive counterbalance from Ursa because their mother is too focused on Zuko.
That’s one of the core takeaways here: Azula received more positive attention from Ozai while Zuko received more positive attention from Ursa. Meanwhile, Ozai is hateful toward Zuko; and Ursa, while not hateful toward Azula by any means, at the very least doesn’t give Azula the same amount or depth of attention that she does to Zuko. And all the while, what Azula SEES happening before her is that her father appreciates and rewards ruthless, cold behavior while scorning compassion. Specifically, she sees how Ozai treats Zuko for demonstrating the compassion that Ursa works to instill in him. And of course Azula saw their father permanently scar his own son’s face in front of a large crowd of people – and for the sin of objecting to the heartlessness of deliberately treating fresh soldier recruits as expendable cannon fodder. When he was 13 years old no less – which would have made Azula 11. (The series opens with Zuko being 16 and Azula being 14, obviously). The girl has lived her ENTIRE life watching her father punish decency and reward cruelty. It’s not exactly surprising that she’s going to internalize the lesson that the only way to survive is to embrace cruelty for its own sake.
This is a mild spoiler from the comics, but one thing that comes out is that Ursa inadvertently triggered some of the abuse that Zuko lived with. She and Ozai had some kind of fight where she blurted out that she wished Ozai was not Zuko’s father, and Ozai promised her that from that moment forward he would make sure to treat Zuko as if he WASN’T his father. We can all see how well that went for Zuko. There’s also a VERY strong implication from the comics that Ozai was extremely abusive toward Ursa herself, which both Azula and Zuko would have seen.
All which is to say, yes, obviously Azula is messed up. She is profoundly messed up. But she’s also a 14 year old KID and she didn’t turn out to be a psychotic murderbot for no reason. She’s just as much a victim of egregious abuse as Zuko is.
Azula takes pleasure in tormenting others, she’s shown this characteristic throughout the entirety of the show without wavering once. She is a psychopath in every feasible way. And if that’s not enough then how about don’t be an abuser apologist.
Nah Azula just straight up sucks
whilst I completely agree Azula is bad, the guys totally have a hard time understanding more complex characterizations unless it was specifically handed to them in the dialogue. I realized the same thing with a lot of the Steven Universe and owl house characters. But also, I like to see their takes and analysis even when they’re right or wrong, subjectively or opinion wise because it’s what makes watching them interesting and fun seeing how someone else perceive these different things watching it for the first time.
Also, they often say that us viewers can only say this because we’ve seen the show and know how it ends, which is true for some cases but a lot of the time it isnt. You just missed something, or interpreted differently when you first saw it/ misinterpreted/misunderstood which is okay to admit, but a lot of these things aren’t deeply rooted that you need to dig deep or finish the show to understand its meant to be understandable. (if that makes sense)
Yeah but victims can still become abusers, she may be a product of her family’s sick values but people are allowed to dislike her for her actions and call her out for being a twisted individual. She may be 14 years old but 14 years old can still be held accountable for their actions no matter who influenced them.
I’m pretty sure these guys are well aware that it isn’t her fault she’s this way. But she is this way and whatever she does by her own free will she will be criticized for her actions. Next time drop the attitude and realize that ur faves are not above criticism.