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on the second watch I appreciate the storytelling even more
walker and lemar, Bucky and sam and zemo all on separate occasions were talking about would you take the serum and about how taking the serum changes you and how captain America was different because he was a good man.
Walker felt like in order to be captain America he needs his strength whilst Sam knows it's not his strength that made him captain America.
Walker got captain americas strength but he will never have his heart. showing how he will never be captain America. only someone with that heart and moral code can be captain America.
Walker trying to manipulate bucky about sam being in danger bc super soldiers into Walker taking the serum for his own ego and leading his own partner into a building full of super soldiers, which leads to lemar's death.
Walker's ego leading to him ruining Sam's talk with Karli, which leads to escalation, which leads to lemar's death.
HMMMM.
Carly is a terrorist, Walkers job was to stop her he is a good soldier the serum amplified that, he's like his own winter soldier without the mind control he only see the mission right now.
I mean, we've seen cap kill like 50 people in his first 2 movies, like he threw a guy out a 17th story window, you think the pedestrians didn't get covered when the dude splattered on the ground?
You understand the difference between killing incombat vs brutally executing someone with extreme violence for a crime they didn't commit..... right?
Is Walker supposed to feel remorse? My entire problem with this show is that John Walker is a good veteran cracking under the pressure Sam being a therapist for veterans does not recognize that instead he gives chances to Karli a terrorist who killed innocent people feels kinda backwards.
dumb comment. all jon did is make things worse, sam was getting through to karli and jons ego ruined it. stop making excuses for jons shitty non captain america behavior. if you have a job pressure isnt an excuse to F it up. most of the avengers have done criminal things but they still get chances to do the right thing.
This is a full misrepresentation of the entire situation.
That's a very fair criticsm. Even though I don't like Walker as a person, I think he's a VERY good character that was a bit mishandled in this show.
I love Dark Marvel. So I also love this phase, lmao.
The problem with Walker is what Erskine said in the first Captain America movie: "Whatever happens tomorrow, you must promise me one thing. That you will stay who you are, not a perfect soldier, but a good man."
Steve was far from the perfect soldier before he took the serum, but he was a good man, that's why he was chosen. Walker was chosen because he was the perfect soldier, not for the content of his character.
John Walker did nothing wrong! RIP Lemar
The shot where Walker lifts the shield to murder the guy is pretty much the same one that occurred with Steve Rogers in Civil War when it looked like he was about to kill Tony in this *exact* way, and that was definitely absolutely deliberate. I have seen so many people argue this was justified while ignoring the real point of the blood on the shield, which is that Walker is completely unfit to be Captain America.
I saw Steve throw a guy out a 17th story window and a different guy into a plane engine, Steve killed SO many people
It's not about not killing. It's about brutalizing a man, violently and with needless cruelty executing him for something he didn't do.
Still hoping you guys react to werewolf by night for Halloween
I still can't wait for Moon Knight! You think this is crazy bananas? Wait till Marvel gives you the full split! lol
I'm also super hyped for them to get to Moon Knight, my 2nd-favorite MCU show (behind Loki).
Also I see what you did there lmao
the fact people argue that steve also killed people but like steve never brutally murdered anyone. obviously people died but never publically someone begging for their life who wasnt even who they were looking for
They ignore that walker brutalised a man for a crime he didn't commit. It doesn't fit their narrative bc the fail to consider what that means in the greater scheme. And they will always defend a violent white man who murdered a bipoc
Steve threw a guy in a plane engine and threw a different guy out a 17th story window where he undoubtedly splattered on the sidewalk all over a bunch of pedestrians, but they didn't explicitly show that so people ignore it
he also made a mans entire body crumple like a can against a boat railing
I like this show but I'm lowkey (heh... Lo-ki) just eagerly waiting to get to Loki every new release, like I'm SO hyped. Still, awesome reaction guys, as always I love your discussions!
For sure the shock of this episode when it aired I still remember!
like number 6 7 lol
That reaction to the end scene was so fucking perfect.
The blood on the cap shield is one of the most striking MCU visuals and it came post-Endgame...
The thing about John Walker is that he is a good solider just not a good hero
"Whatever happens tomorrow, you must promise me one thing. That you will stay who you are, not a perfect soldier, but a good man."
One thing that always frustrated me was Sam’s constant justifying of Karlys actions. Like once you get to killing innocent civilians for your own desires there is no sympathy anymore and it bothers me Sam doesn’t acknowledge that.
when did he "justify" her lol she is fighting for a good cause, the story wants you to know that but sam never justifies her actions. he explicitly condemns them lol
Stop lying. He condems her actions, he just understands the reason behind them. He specifically tells her that in this episode.
he never justifies her actions, he explicitly condemns them
Other than the fact in this episode he literally calls her out for killing innocent people and compares her to a supremacist?
But doesn’t arrest her immediately 😂
What authority does have to arrest her 😂
Well yea but he's looking at her perspective too like same could be said about Punisher the people he kills have families of their own
Sam tells her though “ I agree with your fight, but not the way you’re fighting it” I don’t think that’s him justifying her killing innocents. That’s him acknowledging that there is a large problem but that method of solving it shouldn’t be the way
Captain America should have the traits of Steve and John. Publicly beheading terrorists should be perfectly fine. If the foreign country has a problem with it, they can stick it in their ass.
By that logic every thunderbolts character needs to be executed.
Exactly. Terrorists do not deserve due process. You want that by all means formally declare war and abide by the rules that come with that which don't include killing innocent people to further your cause and if you stand with people that do, you will meet the same end that they do.
I hate this argument, because no, but also that is not the point. Captain America is not the freaking Punisher. If someone wants to be the Punisher, then they should go be the Punisher, but even the Punisher agrees the Punisher is not a good dude.
Nah, L take
Yeah this mindset is why America is currently hated for killing "terrorists" without actual due process. The guy he killed is also begging for his life and should be arrested if surrendering, as a soldier Walker would know that you don't give no quarter, the guy was also not known as a terrorist, Karli is, so all it looks like is he is murdering a man begging and saying it wasn't him.
He wasn’t known as a terrorist but he kept hanging out with Karli who is a terrorist. He should’ve stayed away from her
cool doesn't make the argument valid cuz he is not a known terrorist
He doesn't deserve to die surrendering for it, that is the shit war criminals do to people.
Sebastian Stan's acting during the deprogramming of Bucky was so beautiful. The emotions that were brought out were overwhelming. I too cried in almost sympathy for Bucky.
I hated John the first time I watched this, but dear god retrospectively I really really like his character. He's the perfect example what the position of a superhero would do to a normal person, a traumatized veteran nonetheless. John Walker was an amazing addition and at the end of the show I wanted to see more of his character. Also Zemo continues to be the best part of the show XD his whole story and goals are really interesting and devastating.
Walker is not a normal person. He's a violent white man with an ego.
This show is overlooked by all my friends. They love the Winter Soldier movie, but they won't give this a try. And then they complain they don't know a character in another movie. xD
I get the idea of "the movies should be able to be stand alone." But at the end of the day it is one continuous story and people complaining when they chose to ignore part of it just doesn't make sense to me lol
And so comes one of the most controversial moments in mcu history, personally I think what walker did was wrong but understable
Yo, Buffy and Blade looking for Morbius! Good idea!
The whole world's watching. Steve was a good man before he got the serum. John was a good soldier when he took the serum.
The serum also amplifies the personality of the person. That's why they gave it to Steve. I think they said it in the first Captain America movie. Steve was always trying to do the right thing and not be a hero, he never saw himself as anything greater than. He knew the powers would help him help others. If you want it for yourself, so you can help others because you suck at it and you need to get better for that ego boost, that's something way different. Your desire to do anything to become a hero would cross a lot of your boundaries without the serum. (I tink it was explained something like that, or maybe I read it in a comic... I don't remember it exactly, but it's something like this.)