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on my first watch I didnt like Alicent, and I still would never be team green on my second watch. But I do understand their pov a lot more now and understand how people can be team green. Neither Rhaenyra or Alicent are evil people, compared to someone like Cersei. They both have morals and a heart and wants to do what they think is the right thing to do. and they both are right in their own stories. (obviously keeping in mind Alicent misunderstood Viserys)
Maybe you guys already know this, but the number added to the name of kings is due to them being the x number person to ascend to the throne, not because they’re the x number person of the family to have that name. For example, Louis XV was the XV because he was the fifteenth Louis to become king of France, there were many other Louise’s who didn’t become Kings. And also, just so you guys don’t get lost with the names and the relations between the characters, it would be useful to look up a non-spoiler Targaryen family tree.
Laenor being alive means Rhaenyra and Daemon's kids are definitely bastards so that ain't ever coming out
Technically, maybe, but in substance I don't think that was the intention, nor does it really work out. There have been examples of polygamy like Aenys and Maegor were both legitimate despite being the kids from two separate marriages
I commented a few episodes ago when Sean was like "I feel bad for Allison" that that feeling was going to go away pretty quickly and that absolutely did. Allison is the worst just like her dad. So much so that I don't even care to fix her name off of speech text getting it wrong lol.
I swear the iron throne is either so old and dusty that it is poisonous to those who sit back in it. I honestly thought he was gonna fall on those swords too.
Yes Targaryens marry brother and sister. Aegon I married both of his sisters, Daenerys' parents were brother and sister, every known Targaryen before Aegon I except his father, Aerion, married their sister and like 1/3 of the Targaryen kings married their sisters, even some of the Blackfyres, a Targaryen bastard cadet branch, married brother and sister. But as much as the Targaryens love incest, they still couldnt out do the Ptolemies in real life
Aemond is one of my favorites! A menace like Daemon.
I do feel bad for Vaemond. Got decapitated for speaking the truth. He actually was the rightful heir to Driftmark, unless Laenor's bastards were legitimized.
Wrong he got decapitated for being stupid. Viserys made it known anyone who called her son's bastards let alone did something like call her a whore would get their tongue cut out so he knew what he was walking into when he did it. Just because there was truth to what he was saying doesn't mean he wasn't warned ahead of time to not say it. Play stupid games Win stupid prizes
This episode has one of my most favorite scenes. The King walking into that thrown and looking to Otto saying I will sit the thrown today. Such a good scene
Alicent is nowhere near as bad as Cersei. Cersei had people killed and tortured because she disliked them. She used the people of King's Landing as a meat shield. She killed thousands of innocents to blow up her political rivals at the Sept of Baelor, including her uncle. She tormented Tyrion all his life for the mere reason of her mother dying during his birth. She's an actual monster whose only redeeming quality is her love of her children, a quality that could even be called into question after the events of seasons 7 and 8. There are plenty of reasons to hate her.
On the flip side, Sean hates Alicent because he's taken Rhaenyra's side, so every petty thing Alicent does seems egregious to him, and every petty thing Rhaenyra and Daemon does gets reduced. Keep in mind, Alicent defended her friend's honor, only to find out Rhaenyra lied to her on the memory of her dead mother, continually insulted her, her husband's and everyone else's intelligence by claiming Rhaenyra's sons were by Laenor, and seemingly had Laenor killed. Even though we know that's not what happened, all arrows point to that being the case, so of course Alicent would believe it, after the previous lies. Not to mention one of Rhaenyra's kids took Aemond's eye, and wasn't punished for it.
Don't get me wrong, Alicent is overly self-righteous, and that's highly annoying. And even though we can understand her motivations, it doesn't justify her actions. But the fact Sean thought she was going to have the serving girl killed shows he doesn't understand her character. She's a deeply flawed person, not an evil one. She's operating under the illusion what she's doing is right and just, as opposed to Cersei who knew she was doing wrong but didn't care, so long as it served her. The thing is, Alicent is so lost in the sauce that she blunders from one mistake to another, and a lot of misery stems from that. You can see how those results wrack her conscience. This is what makes her a tragic character in a way that Cersei could never be. She gets to learn how her previously thought of just actions led to destruction and ruin.
No one's reading all that but the basic gist of everything is that Alicent sucks.
Also notice how Viserys calls Rhaenyra "my only child" when she comes to visit him. She's his only child with his true love Aemma. All his other kids are kind of a disappointment in one way or another lol
luc cut aemond's eye, jace threw the pocket sand
Its obviously Plan B tea lol
Fun fact the moment with Deamond and the king when he picks up his crown and help him to the throne was improvised by Matt Smith
Probably not because it seemed like it needed to fall down and be picked up by someone
This is the best episode of the show. From both season 1 and season 2. Every Viserys scene in this episode ruined me. Watching him show up in the throne room was absolute cinema.
You must consider what Alicent has been through and has been forced to do and how it has changed her, this is not the same as excusing her either from her position she was FORCED to marry and procreate while Rhaenyra was forced to marry but not procreate and the reason Alicent and Rhaenyra's relationship was stressed is because they don't communicate anymore. Alicent doesn't know they tried, she just has become complicit and undermined. Her anger is unjust but not unexpected she can NEVER express it as she said she is no longer Alicent she is The Queen and she is alone and surrounded by men who use her to better themselves. Take Larys for example, he USED the information she provided to climb. She is a victim and makes horrible decisions because of it. These decicions do suck and have consequence but they aren't of deep evil.
No we don't. Alicent sucks
I do not disagree is the thing
As well I hope this doesn't come off as angry, I just wished to share my perspective of the show. You are of course welcome to feel however you feel and that's okay it's TV lol
I did initially feel bad for her when the show started, but after the actress change/BIG time jump I didn't feel quite as bad anymore considering what we see her do. She raised her children on a mentality of "be mean and evil to your sister and nephews. One day you will have to kill them." She covered up Aegon assaulting the serving girl, basically had the Strongs killed, and tried to cut out a child's eye. I get how she ended up like this, but she is not innocent at all, not anymore.
Even Larys called her out when she wanted Otto back by saying "you don't think your father will be impartial in his decisions and judgments." To which she responded "No but he will be partial to me." I don't even think she realizes how far she's fallen from her "decent morals". That's just how I see it, it is still just a TV show with fake people that doesn't really matter.
Consider "be mean and evil to your sister and nephews. One day you will have to kill them." is somethig her father planted in her, not something she did on her own accord. This is only possible again because of Rhaenyra and her's fractured relationship
Alicent’s choices make sense if you consider that the feudal system punishes weakness and rewards ruthlessness. Raising her children to see Rhaenyra and her heirs as threats, covering for Aegon's rape, ordering the Strongs killed to return Otto are all shaped by the pressure within that system. Viserys shows the same logic in the very first episode, choosing to kill Aemma and deprive her of her own choice in order to try to secure a male heir. In which case, I see her story as more tragic than villainous.
I never seen the whole Cersei Alison comparison like seriously what does she do that is as bad as Cersei at this point he hasn’t done she hasn’t killed anyone she has she’s been scheming for power which by the standards of this world is pretty common. Like I think people see Allison is way more evil than she is because of her role in the story.
She raised her children on a mentality of "be mean and evil to your sister and nephews. One day you will have to kill them." She covered up Aegon assaulting the serving girl, basically had the Strongs killed, and tried to cut out a child's eye. I get how she ended up like this, but she is not innocent at all.
You're stretching what she did. She's a bad parent, but she didn't teach her kids to be evil to their sister and nephews. In fact, she regularly chastises Aegon when he's being an asshole. She also didn't intend for the Larys to kill his brother and father.
She did cover for Aegon regarding the serving girl, which is par for the course for nobles. Though again, she ripped Aegon a new one for it.
And she did try to cut out a child's eye when she was unhinged from her own son getting his eye knifed out. So you're right on those two.
They literally talk about her decisions getting people THIS episode. Arguably, she's worse than Cercei because at least she was doing shit with the intention. Alicent has gotten people killed multiple times from her scheming and not understanding the consequences. She didn't want the Strongs killed, but she caused them to be. This episode, while mostly his own fault, the Hightower bullshit plays got the Vallerian guy killed.
Otto does suck, but I enjoy him as a character. He is smart and calculated, even if he is also devious. Also, he covered Henry Winkler in bees.
The cleanest cut by a sword ever seen on TV.
It's so ironic how Rhaenyra's kids are all normal but Alicent's aren't. No shade to sweet Helena (the best one out of the royal blonde siblings) lmao.
Poor Helaena. She deserves a better family.
It was wee Lucerys who took Aemond's eye out, not Jace.
In the last episode the brothers were talking about Aegon's marriage to his sister. The scene at the funeral. Aegon said he doesn't want to marry Helena cause she's 'an idiot'😂 Then his bro Aemond was like, "I would marry her if it was my duty" no problem😂
With the appearance of The Saxon Distraction, IYKYK, I once again insist that ya'll would love The Last Kingdom.
Love Viserys I, such a great character. Cried a couple of times through this episode. This season has been like a first time watching for me since I've not remembered anything that happens this season, season 2 being more recent I am more familiar with.
One thing with the Valyrians.
Incest with them is massive, though not near as common back in the freehold as I understand it, as there were many, many more of them, however it does purpose regardless of how messed up it is in our time/world. The Valyrian's cultivated pure bloodlines to make it easier to control dragons, so the reason why Aegon married his sisters, instead of say, marrying lady Arryn of the Vale during the Conquest, was because he needed a pure Valyrian lineage to control future dragons. its also why they would marry House Celtigar or House Velaryon, as both are Valyrian blooded or marry first/second cousins (Aemma and Viserys) to refine that blood after alliances. Basically, if the more the Targs marry outside their ancestral heritage, the more they lose their superpower/right to rule (dragons).
It would be like: "You either marry your sister or your entire country/family loses every military advantage it possibly has while surrounded by enemies" (faith of the seven does not like Targs, historically). Modern standards, not great. Medieval time period before stuff like birth defects was widely known, still scandalous but not nearly as bad as it is now.
What makes Alicent different than Cersei is that Cersei never pretended to be a righteous person.
Paddy Considine's performance in this season made him my favourite character, especially in this episode. After this episode aired, the comments on social media were absolutely wild.
Also, Viserys dropping the crown was apparently an accident during rehearsals. The scene was supposed to be just Daemon helping Viserys to the throne but during rehearsals the crown fell off and they just continued the scene, improvising having Daemon put the crown on his brother's head. Daemon was originally supposed to give a speech during the dinner to heal his rift with his brother but they realised that Daemon helping and then crowning Viserys said everything in a more powerful way. He loves his brother.
Yeah, it was interesting. Because you can tell he loves his brother, but is also very offput by Viserys's weakness, first as a ruler, and then physically with his sickness. But in that moment his love for his brother overcame his disgust. Neat bit of character writing.
They are changing some stuff from the book, but they are actually doing it in a really smart way. The book, Fire and Blood, is an in universe history book written from the perspective of a Maester, so the details they get are from public sources and rumors they gather and just like real history books they can be missing information or lie to paint a different narrative, and the show can show us all the secrets and plots that never got into the history book.
But that’s not stopping book readers from complaining about the changes!
RIP Viserys I Targaryen
Also, Jon Snow's Targaryen name is also Aegon and he's a descendent of both the House of the Dragon (representing fire) and the Kings of Winter (Starks, representing ice).
Viserys is just such a well-written character and well-acted character; I love and hate him in equal amounts; it's genuinely still so upsetting that Paddy Consindine didn't get nominated for his performance.
What's been interesting about the response to Alicent from the audience, is that the writing, direction, and acting really tries as hard as humanly possible to get the audience to sympathize her as a deeply flawed but human character especially compared to how she is in the book, but the response has mostly ranged from slight dislike to complete disdain. Aside from the marketing in season 1, I feel like I finally get why that is after watching your guys' reaction.
I don't know whose idea it was to think that we would sympathize with her but the majority of people absolutely don't. Allison is the worst
audiences at-large are just generally more prone to hypercriticism of women who work in and defend the status quo (though mostly women in general). I kinda wish they just steered into the skid and adapted the more cersei-like character she was in the books, but instead they decided to make her more like Sansa; where she's a child forced into a political system that hates her and learns to adapt and perpetuate it. It's an admirable goal in a show that's about inspecting how legacy and history is built be dehumanizing real-world people with fictional characters, but I don't think the audience will realize that until it's too late.
I'm one of the few who does sympathize with Alicent. She's always been an anxious person (remember the bloody picked at fingernails from the early episodes?). She was then manipulated by her father, married off to a man she didn't love, had her best friend ignore her because of it, then had her former best friend lie to her on the memory of her dead mother after she herself defended Rhaenerya's honor, then had to endure years of deceit regarding the legitimacy of Jace, Luke and Joffrey. That deceit also exposes her own kids to danger. Then her son loses an eye in a scuffle. Yes, I'd argue Aemond contributed greatly to the responsibility for that, not excusing him. Just saying that Alicent's personality isn't well disposed to handle all this. She truly believes she's doing what's right, even though she's disastrous with her decisions.
I think the reason people hate Alicent is because they were endeared to Rhaenyra early on, which I wasn't. I saw her as a petulant, spoiled child who lied to her best friend to save her skin, flippantly coerced a Kingsguard into breaking his vows because she didn't want to get spurned that night, then refused to help him mend his honor.
Thing is, in the second half of this season Rhaenyra becomes a more likeable person, and that continues in the second season. Plus, her kids are much more appealing than Alicent's. So even though I'm sympathetic to Alicent, it's not like I'm rooting for her side.
this episode is one of the best of the entire franchise. Viserys is an incredible character.
George R. R. Martin said after the first season ended, that Paddy Considine's portrayal of Viserys was better than the book version Martin wrote in Fire and Blood.
I'm surprised they haven't noticed any of the comments Helaena makes during random moments... "beware the monster below the floor boards"
yes, Aegon is married to his sister Helaena XD it is the Targaryen way
Merry Christmas!
So, Laenor is half black lol. So in the show, it's not just because the hair doesn't match, it's because Rhaenyra's kids clearly are white. In the books, her children do still have black hair, but Rhaenys has black hair too, so they point to that being the reason the kids don't have white hair
Can't remember if yall acknowledged this in past episodes, but Viserys has Leprosy which is a skin disease. There was no cure for it, so if someone had it, it was inevitable to kill the person.
i’m normally a silent watcher but i’m lowkey mad i’m so caught up with you guys. waiting for new eps is painful 😂😩
Merry Christmas y’all!
MERRY CHRISTMAS ☃️❄️🌨️🍪🎅🎄🎁🤶🥛!!!
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