176 Comments
Recommended
-
Game of Thrones S8 Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
Hazbin Hotel S2 Episode 1 & 2 Reaction
-
JV Team – Smiling Friends S2 Episode 1-4 Reaction
-
The Falcon and The Winter Soldier Episode 1 Reaction
-
My Hero Academia S3 Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
JV Team – Smiling Friends Episode 1-5 Reaction
-
Game of Thrones S7 Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
JV Team – Arcane Episode 1 Reaction
-
Pokémon Origins Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
bâan Reaction
-
A Good Girl’s Guide to Murder Episode 1 Reaction
-
Wednesday S2 Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
Game of Thrones S6 Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
Dragon Ball Z Abridged Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
Wandavision Episode 1 Reaction
-
Wednesday Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
Dan Da Dan S2 Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
Wonderfully Weird World of Gumball Episode 1-4 Reaction
-
Cyberpunk Edgerunners Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
Doctor Who S4 Episode 1 Reaction
-
Game of Thrones S5 Episode 1-2 Reaction
-
South Park S27 Episode 1 Reaction
-
Everything’s Fine… – Billy Ends The World – Short #1
-
Game of Thrones S4 Episode 1 Reaction
Bran knew it was gonna happen when he Gave her the Dagger it will be more clear in the season finale why he gave the Dagger to Arya cause he had another purpose for Jon
At The Battle of Helms Deep It was Dark and Raining and You could still see everything
The best thing that this episode gave me is the song "The Night King" one of my favs from the OST.
This is my first time watching through seasons,, 6-8 I believe? And honestly, I don't mind that Arya was the one to kill the night king at all, but I'm also a MASSIVE Arya fan so I may be biased. I think the show's been kinda pointing at Jon being the one to do it and Im sad we don't get to see them battle it out, but simultaneously, I feel like a big part of the way this show has been written all along is in subverting expectations. The twists happen in the spaces where the show sets you up to expect something to happen, then subverts it. I think Jon would've won if given the opportunity, but I think thats why the Night King spent the episode denying Jon that opportunity (literally raising an entire new army of dead just to avoid one duel with the guy). And I think at that point, Arya is the next most likely person to kill him. She's the only one really there with the skillset necessary to both sneak up on the Night King and deliver the final blow on him (that being said honestly I wouldn't be surprised if she snuck through the army either through that back portion where they didnt have a perimeter or if she maybe stole one of the wight's faces? Though Im not sure if that'd work fully)
this is just my opinion by the way but I think the great part of GOT is that conclusion that subverted expectations felt natural and where thematic with the story and the themes they were portraying. Arya killing the Night King is da just suppose to surprise you. But, in the overall story the narrative does not point to this at all. Everyone was surprised by the Red Wedding however, all decisions pointed toward that event occurring.
I feel so bad every question/complaint they have I’m just like “yea no they never explain that”
The dagger drop kill was fucking sick BUT it obviously shouldve been Jon
We said “mommy has arrived” at the same time and I don’t think I’ve ever been prouder 😂❤️
Someone tell they literally rush the ending to direct a Star Wars trilogy only for them to not get it because season 7 and 8 was so ass
actually some diehard book fans slowly starting to believe this is the true ending george told but the season where just rushed sand thus things didnt make sense but stretchs them out over a longer time and they kinda do
The show-runners made Arya kill the Night King LITERALLY just to subvert expectations cuz they're lazy shits. They had a deal for a new Star Wars show when GoT was closing out and have SAID they were just rushing to get it done.....GOOD LUCK YALL rest of the season is ass.
I had a theory for YEARS that Jaime was the one to take down the Night King, it would have made his redemption complete, there is a legend in the song of Ice and Fire universe where the first long night was won by a hero that drove his sword through his loves heart and the sword caught fire and became magical, with the sword "light bringer" he defeated the walkers, my theory was that everything Jaime went through led him to this moment where Brienne restored his honor, and in a way he loves her, now imagine Brienne is fighting a White Walker general and the walker disarms her and stabs her through the heart with her own sword, Jaime enraged pulls the sword from her heart "oath keeper" and it ignites, he swings the sword at the walker and huge swathes of flame spring from the sword and take out dozens of walkers at a time as he makes his way to the Night King who is face to face with Bran, to save the first person he ever wronged in the show, he calls out to the Night King, the Night King turns to face Jaime, and Jaime yells to him "Do you know what they call me?" and then you hear the audio from every time in the show anyone called him "king slayer" Robert, Ned, Brienne etc... "king slayer" "king slayer!" "THE KING SLAYER!" and the lines keep coming as Jaime and the Night King have an epic battle "oath keeper" is over powering the Night King and you can see him visibly off balance, so the Night King thinking quick on his feet swiftly cuts off Jaime's last hand... but the flames from "oath keeper" were so hot that the sword melded to his golden hand, Jaime acts quickly while the Night King is off guard and stabs "oath keeper" through the Night Kings heart so far that they both hit the ground and "oath keeper" impales the ground and a huge explosion if fire erupts from "oath keeper" consuming Both the Night King and Jaime, the fire melts away all the other walkers and the dragon and the only left of the Night King and Jaime Lannister, Is "oath keeper" sticking up from the ground and as dawn breaks, you see the sun reflecting off of his golden golden hand still attached to the sword, putting and end to the long night and Jaime's oath... now kept
but instead we got this :P
i really like to hear your thoughts on the episodes espacially on this bullshit, but i must say its so god damn annoying that you guys cant let the other one finish a sentence. you guys always talk into eachother wich is disrespectful as hell. And its not fun to listen that way. 1 person explains something and the other guy interrupts in the middle of the sentence. guys please change that behaviour is not only hard to listen to its also something that has to do with beeing respectful to the other person. Im from germany so excuse my bad englisch
You would be correct when it comes to speaking to a stranger, or even an acquaintance, but they are pretty close friends. They are just excited from the events. Cut them some slack man
Wtf are you talking bout my man? Respectfully stfu
respectfully indeed :3
Late to the party but the main point to me is that sometimes the obvious answer is the right one. The show runners were desperate to subvert expectations in the culmination of the biggest antagonist plot in the show. They just didn’t need to, Jon fighting the night king could’ve much more satisfying than the wet shit we got. Unfortunately that’d require D&D to be creative, which by this point they had no interest in being, they didn’t have the patience for it as they’d already mentally transitioned to new projects, a Star Wars project in particular. There’s been hella excuses saying it wasn’t Star Wars that made them fast track this show, but sometimes, the obvious answer is the right one.
I can't even comment on this shit, there's just too much to say. I felt so much second hand embarrassment I had to play on my phone the whole time. I almost considered skipping it. Everything was wrong with this episode. The reason people hate this season so fiercely is because these final episodes negatively impact the early seasons. Twist and subversions are a magic trick, the spectacle. When a magician does magic, the amazement lies in the fact that you KNOW he isn't actually doing magic, but yet they some how manage to astonish you with their tricks. In season one when Ned gets his dome piece removed, it was made to seem like a twist, but it wasn't. We as an audience had all the information we needed to expect that to happen. The subversion was played on our preconceived notions about main characters. But when you rewatch or read the books knowing his fate, it feels like your watching a horror movie screaming at the screen, because all the breadcrumbs were there. Of course this man was gonna die, he pretty much killed himself. Same for Robb. The thing about magicians, they TELL you what they are going to do, why? Because the trick doesn't work if the target isn't watching the build up. That's what foreshowing is that's what anticipation is, that's what storytelling is. That's why a movie like The Prestige is so masterful, because after you watch it the first time, the second watch, you see EVERYTHING. This final season like a magician telling you he's gonna make the ball in his hand appear in your hand, then taking you on this amazing journey with a bunch of different color balls, with a bunch off incredible tricks along the way, the whole time your standing with your fist clenched, feeling more and more convinced that this magician might actually pull this off, then when the big moment finally arrives they have you open your fist to an empty palm, and while your standing their in disappointed disbelief, they go "oh wait a moment" then reach behind your ear and come back revealing the ball, and say "bet you were expecting that were you?"
I think what alot of people miss is that yes Arya stabbed him, but Bran orchestrated the whole thing. Go back and watch Season 7 Ep 4 (it's roughly 1:22:00 in that video). Bran hands Arya the catspaw's dagger in the exact spot that Arya eventually stabs the Night King. Look at his face when he does it. Bran killed the Night King, Arya is just his tool.
Bran Is almost always there in every scene after returning to winterfell. The only possible foreshadowing was just Bran giving Arya the knife. Bran can't see the future
To piss you guys off even more: Vladimir Furdik (The Night King) is a sword master and highly respected figure in the stunt world. He served as the sword and fight master on The Witcher... and all they had him doing here was walking...?? The biggest miss ever was not having him and Jon battle it out. 7 seasons of building up Jon vs. The Night King for nothing.
I didn't know that before. Such wasted talent fs
Arya killing the Night King was perfect. Jon always had a more forthright, barrel though things. He would have never been able to get close with his approach and him taking on fights he shouldn't (like him not getting on Drogon and instead trying to fight through Whitewalkers for no reason). He didn't even want to consider lying even if it helped him and his people in the long run. Arya has ALWAYS been good and sneaking around and keeping quiet. She was also trained by an extremely deadly assassin on top of her already sneaky ways. So her being able to sneak her way around the Whitewalkers twice and almost not get caught by the prime ones makes perfect sense. Not to mention them forewarning this in season 2 or 3 "you will close many eyes, You will close bronw eyes, green eyes, and blue eyes" and the red woman repeating that to her for Arya to realize what she meant all those years ago and *chefs kiss*. And they also gave a hint of how when she sparred with Brienne, cause when she lost Needle, her dagger hand got caught and she dropped to grab it with her other and came to a stale mate with Brienne. All around perfect. For these first 3 episodes at least.
Arya is trained by the most deadly and skilled assassin's in the world, she is one of the best in the world, she was able to sneak thru the dead and get past them, that's why it showed one of the walkers slightly noticing her, she is just that good, it kind of makes sense she would be the only one to ever get the jump on the night king.
Jon burned himself throwing the lantern at the first undead trooper that attacked Lord Commander Mormont near the beginning of the show. He’s certainly not fireproof. Neither was the Targaryen brother at the beginning either. Her other brother Rhaegar though was fireproof. The trait seems to act as anyone other genetic trait, skipping some offspring.
Since when was Rhaegar fireproof?
now you guys are getting why we hate season 8. not only the teleporting that doesnt make sense. but how things are executed. why did jon/aegon not get to kill the night king. how did aria get past the wights and jora get out onto the battle field, i strongly beleive its so dark because they didnt want to spend the time on better CGI. things only go more off the rails. people not seeing what they should from their position. more wierd things like with aria being the one taking down the night king. try not to put too much logic to this seasons logic. just that the two creators wanted to get this season done quickly to move onto other things.
Arya killing the Night King is an example of Dan and Dave wanting to subvert expectations. Everyone expected Jon to kill the Night King because his entire story arc has been leading up to it. But D&D didn't want to do what people were expecting, so they decided to have Arya kill him instead. Real life often doesn't play out poetically, but literacy is different. This is one of those examples of breaking a literary rule, and it backfired hard on them.
Unfortunately, this isn't the only example of them subverting expectations, to the show's detriment.
"How did they not consider that they were in a crypt?"
I mean...did you guys? lol
I didn't. No one knows the mechanics of how the Night King brings back the dead. For all we knew, it might only apply to the recently deceased. I don't think this is as obvious an oversight as people make it out to be.
i saw it coming as soon as they started saying they were going to be in the previous episode. even peter dinklage said he didn't like the decision.
From the moment the two armies clash on foot the army of the dead looked like a sea of bones and skulls. I mean honestly they never had a chance with the amount of dead and the power of the storm. Keeping the fires down to a minimum because the cold winds would snuff them out regardless of dragon fire.
"Who thought this was a good idea?" The episode title is literally "The Long Night" it takes almost entirely, get this, at night. Its winter. Its gonna be dark. Not to mention the fact for WEEKS your audience has warned you that for one episode in particular you were gonna need to turn the lights off and enjoy in a near dark room. Your constant complaining of how dark things are is becoming insufferable.
Helms Deep takes place at night during a thunderstorm. I can still see everything that happens. Please stop trying to defend the director's coloring fuck up.
I actually think it being so dark works really well, it adds so much suspense and just sets the mood right, and then when you got those big moments like the swords being lit, the trenches and the dragonfire it just looks awesome.
The lengths some people go through to defend this dumpster fire. I feel like "being able to see what's happening" is a very valid request from an episode lmao
Nah I'm sorry this is still a piss poor excuse for how terrible it looks. Even if what you're say is true and it's on purpose, it looks awful on any monitor/tv that isn't 4k. And even then, it still has a lot of color branding in the dark. Idk man, overall I just think it's a disappointment for what the long night could've/should've been.
nah fr lol
My other other favourite part of this episode is how everyone is surviving JUST where they need to be, everyone seems to somehow be isolated perfectly in safe zones with the people they need/want to be with. Jorah's moment is great, until you think. How the fuck did he get there without being completely murdered? How did Arya get to courtyard with all those dead blocking the entrance? The undead are really scarely and overwhelming and deadly, unless the screenwriters needed them to not be.
The words "We gotta wrap this shit up" rings through my ears everytime I watch this season, and to an extent season 7 too. It only gets better from here.....
They're beginning to understand
And it only gets....'better' now. We will watch, and wait.
"Looking for a connection for it to make sense Jons entire purpose is gone now" LMAO Welcome to the final season where Dave and Dan shat all over every season of the show to speed thru to go make Star Wars then the Final season was so garbage and hated Disney fired them and took their Star Wars trilogy away from them. Best case of Karma ever lol
Rewatching your discussion, and I get the sense you guys misunderstood the writing changes (or atleast mispoke, because Ruff mentioned different writers) so to clarify; the showrunners have always been Dan Benioff and D.B. Weiss (D&D), they wrote many of the episodes throughout it's lifespan, but around season 6-8, they decided they wanted to move on from the show and decided to faststrack a lot of its plotlines to make a finale. In regards to George R.R. Martin, he was both a creative consultant, and part of the writing team from season 1-4 (having been credited for an episode each of those seasons), but left to focus on writing books after season 4. So there were no real change in the eriter's team that wasn't already there by season 5.
Jon got burned by the lantern when he killed his first wight in season 1. Dany being immune to fire is a show-only thing. I'm not caught up with the books, but from what I understand, Targaryens are only tolerant to heat, and Dany survived being burnt through blood magic. Even by the show's logic, it'd still make sense for Jon to not be immune like Dany since he's not a "pureblooded" dragonlord. But I fully agree with you on how badly lit this episode was, how Jon should've won the war for the living, and how unsatisfying it was to end this battle within one episode. Since season 1, the "game of thrones" always seemed to be a distraction from the existential threat of the Long Night. Their decision to flip it is interesting, though I could see it becoming the direction the books also take if GRRM ever finishes them. All breadcrumbs lead to Jon Snow, the ice and fire, Stark and Targaryen, being the prince that was promised. I'm paraphrasing, but the showrunners admitted they gave Arya the kill because "Jon is always the hero," and they wanted to "subvert expectations," which is an insane reason to change directions after seven seasons of foreshadowing. The impregnable Eyrie could've played a role, too, if the Long Night played out across a season instead of an episode. The Lord of Light subplot has no satisfying conclusion because apparently the whole thing is framed differently in the books. The showrunners made so many small changes -- and even bigger changes, like to Dorne and Euron -- that they fumbled what should've been the payoff to a decade's worth of setup. Their refusal to kill off fan favorites like Tormund, Tyrion, and Arya in the later seasons, when they clearly didn't know what to do with them anymore, also led to them being relegated to comic relief, doing things "out of character," and costing more central characters like Jaime and Jon satisfying arc conclusions.
I guess i was just never as horny for Jon as everyone else. Having Jon fight the Night King did feel like an Aang vs Ozai fight but lets be honest, would the Night King ever let a Valerian steel sword get near him. He has always played it safe. I mean we literally saw it. The second Jon tries to engaged in a one on one fight, he's calling the hoard. Arya and Jon are not good enough to 2 v 100, but Arya is good enough to finesse them. Arya didn't jump onto Craster's men and then onto the Night King. She just ran past them. She did prove in the library that if you're quiet enough, the dead can't hear you. They also kinda used the Hunter x Hunter tactic of how a predator is most vulnerable when they're going for the kill.
I will say there are a million things wrong with this season, but the more I rewatch this show, the more obvious it becomes that Arya is the one to kill the God of Death
Thats not obvious at all the entire plot of Jon being reborn and the prophecy of Azor Ahai is his literally entire soul purpose is to defeat the Night King and the entire show built up Jon stopping the Night King and having to be the one to stop him. Dan and Dave rushed it because they booked Star Wars then the season was so awful and garbage Disney fired them and took Star Wars away they got what they deserved lol
If they ever remake this season they ought to start on this episode. Lighting, battle tactics, use of certain chess pieces and experience. The disconnect between Arya killing the Night king and Jon. I definitely anted to see the Night King slay or fight for real and my thought is he’s covered in so much detail and makeup that he can’t move much.
I have to disagree with you on so much of this, just like I disagree with a lot of haters (not calling you haters lol). John is not immune to fire, he has literally been hurt by fire before in the series, it doesn't make sense. On that in particular, you are creating impossible scenarios and then being upset when it doesn't happen. The Night King is a necromancer. What is scary about him isn't his combat ability, it's his magic. Assassination by Arya makes sense here. You kept talking about how his whole posse was there and you think a single warrior (even if it's John) fights all that? Melisandre's story was told throughout multiple seasons. If you haven't figured out what her place in this whole story is, maybe you will on a second watch? IDK. Obviously, the complaints about the darkness of the episode are valid as hell lol, wayyyy too dark. Otherwise, I think this episode gets way more shit than it deserves.
it should have come down to Jon and the night king and it's ridiculous it didn't
I guess I agree with a lot of the comments from you both. I think the spectacle is fun, and I'm pleased enough by spectacle. But then within the GoT universe, too much is weird and doesn't make sense. They only make sense as "the production just rushed everything and didn't care as much anymore." And back when it came out, that was what was most upsetting to me, personally. They were pretty forthright with how little they cared.
I was watching the show with you guys and I realized pretty quick that we got to Assassinate Night King. I even made plans and it was always down to Arya to be honest. Don't get me wrong Jon is a good warrior but Night King's henchmen and sword abilities wouldn't let him get near.
I had to comment again.. When I sat on it, I found you guys more right than my thoughts. Fighting Night King was Jon's Legacy.
Now, sweet summer children, you have become men of winter.
Them saving both dragons can’t be in the field to help at the start of the battle was so fucking dumb. Jon could have his dragon watch Bran and Danny could just burn the undead. Either way the night king would have to fight one dragon to get to the other. Them also putting their entire Calvary in the damn front and just charging them into a zombie invested black abyss was insane they should have made a mop around the damn castle and had it filled with oil and used the Dothraki to flank the dead later 🤦🏽♂️the tactics in the damn episode made no fucking sense
There's no light because there's not as much music. the light comes from the same place as the music.
The tactics for the start of the battle made no sense. From the placement of the infantry and catapults and trench,, to the dothraki charge, nothing made any tactical or strategic sense or logic.
You literally saw why everyone hates this season it's all weird and wrong it's a good watch but disconnected to the other seasons this season is so poorly written
I think I might be one of the many few who actually love this episode the way it is. Like yes it could’ve been brighter and yes Arya killing the night king made no sense but everything else was fantastic to me. I loved this episode
The tactics for the battle were absolute dog shit, no strategy whatsoever.
Daenerys is not immune to fire and never was. The only instance depicted in the books was the birth of the dragons, which — as Martin said — was unique, magical, wondrous, a miracle.
she was, she burned the dothraki chieftan's hut down with her inside and came out unscathed
Please guys, after the show, go watch this alternative ending: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoP8nxLvuj3P1x0mzHHbbDM25HAJAqFyH&si=zw1g065N6mPJwxYu
It's the best rewriting of Season 8 for me.
And yes, what a messy episode. I was so confused by the battle plan, like why the fuck Daenerys and Jon were'nr burning the dead sooner omg 🙃
They were waiting for the kn to show up
definitely the end of the world
Why are they outside the castle walls? That defeats the whole purpose of having a castle...
Not enough room, not enough food, not enough time to just wait them out. Battles take place outside of castles
Those are all stupid reasons, especially when every death ADDS to the enemy army. Ramsay sent his men to fight outside the walls out of pure arrogance and it's the main reason he lost to Jon and the Vale's army.
I finally understand all the "pateron comments are full of idiots" jokes
Well at least you understand something
Ruff: "There were so many incredible moments and then so many weird fumbles near the end." This is basically a perfect summary of the show as a whole.
lmao this episode was written by Benioff and Weiss its their fault for all the stupid bs.
So here's an alternate train of thought that my wife hit me with on re-watch: What if Jon got to fight the Night King on the run-up outside the walls (literally the fight that gets shown in that new GoT game trailer)? They throw down a bit, then NK realizes he's going to lose. He beats Jon back, and THEN goes in with his "Come at me Bro" arms up. Jon then essentially follows the same path trying to reach the grove before NK can get to Bran, but they get their big clash. He still gets trapped, Theon still dies, Arya still leaps out of the trees for the drop-stab.
Would the ending have felt better if Jon still got to at least throw down with the Night King?
I guess none of this really matters because of so many of the big complaints about the ep (which, playing devil's advocate, I think a lot of people's problems like with the Dothraki and trebuchets outside the walls and hiding in the crypts is pretty damn easy to defend). But my point is, I remember reading an article right before this ep came out and it always stuck with me: Game of Thrones was incredible because it showed a grand scale story where plot armor did not exist. But in terms of great storytelling--particularly on an epic scale of heroes and villains and good vs. evil--plot armor becomes a necessity so that the heroes can triumph and the story can be fulfilled. Unfortunately, GoT saw worlds collide with a story built on authentic character death and consequences, and the plot armor of epic tales like LoTR.
Ultimately, this episode is the result of that, and I pretty firmly believe that that's part of why GRRM has struggled so hard to finish the books: He can't reconcile the two modes of thought on how to tell the end of his story.
I agree that Jon should have killed the Night King, but I don't agree that Arya should kill Cersei even though the name has been on her list. The Arya kill that mattered the most was Walder Frey. Maybe this is because I still prefer the books, but plotwise there are other characters that are theorized to be intended to kill Cersei.
For me personally, I like the idea of Arya being the one to ultimately kill Cersei because Arya had to watch her own father be dismembered because of Cersei's unwillingness to not have power over the Iron Throne (which is why it led her to destroy the Citadel in King's Landing). Arya having to understand what it means to be an actress and wear different faces, getting closer to Cersei through tricky tactics. Also the fact that Arya has been stating Cersei's name for seasons on her death list. Of course the only other person that I can think of in the Stark household to kill Cersei is Sansa herself because of how torturous Cersei was to her during Sansa's time in King's Landing. But if I had to throw a dart on the wall where both Sansa and Arya's head were at, I would hope to land that dart on Arya to ultimately kill Cersei.
All downhill from here
Yeah. Once again Targaryens aren’t immune to fire. Not even some of them. The only case has been Dany.
Game of thrones “Devoid of logic” https://youtu.be/9QvZSeOEkrs?si=y5V2yfuFjjwrKEsp
Theres big ass spoilers in that billy
Pretty much all the complaints you guys had are my issues with the episode and i have a feeling it'll be the same with the next episodes.
And now, you realize why S8 is the most disliked. They lost care for the story once Weiss and Benioff got the Star Wars project. And that eventually fell through. The legacy of GOT should have been a perfect series but was ruined with the priority of plot twists instead of fulfilled character arcs.
Jon burns himself during season 1, so he was never immune to fire like Dany is. But yeah, that was a long time ago, and I don't think they show multiple instances of him being burnt.
Good moments. Great moments even. But is it what it was built up to be? No, it falls so incredibly short. I love that it was Aria. That's not my issue. My issue is that we understand next to nothing about these villains that were built up so much. No big revelations. No deep-seated lore. No lasting struggle fighting them. It's just action with hardly any story to it. It's so shallow. The only good bit of writing is Bran telling Theon he's a good man. The Night King should have been the final boss. It's fun action. But yeah, that's not what the rest of the show is. It has great action. But the writing bolstered the action so much. There was so much weight because of the writing. There wasn't a lot of weight behind the action here. And it was so important for there to be WEIGHT behind the action here. Disaster. This episode gets worse the longer you sit with it. And it retroactively makes the last two seasons suck when you know what happens.
Ya'll really need to get over this fireproof Targaeryan BS before House of the Dragon...
Did everyone think Viserys just was bleach blonde and not one of them when he died "he's no true dragon"? Why would John who is half Targaryen be able to just walk through fire even if that were a thing. Its goofy on multiple levels. I can't even blame people for the first season because its never really explained but nothing since then really made much sense.
I took the red woman saying “What do we say to death?” as her essentially telling Arya she wasn’t going to die that day, so between that and telling her she would close blue eyes, Arya knew what she had to do and just went for it with full confidence.
Hey ya'll, we're about to fight an enemy that can raise the dead, let's put all our non-combatants in a stone box underground with a shit ton of corpses...
This made my tummy hurt
It makes total sense that aria would be the one since it was hinted at long long ago her closest eyes(blue.) people claiming Jon was the prophecy deemed “the one” or whatever aren’t seeing it for what it was. Jon did lead he’s the one responsible for putting the force and all of Danys’ army/dragons to fight the dead and night king. I know people have hard ons for Jon needing to do everything though so I’m done arguing with people who can’t be reasoned with. Lastly, this was one of the greatest episodes of the entire series and the only reasonable complaint is the fact that they made it way too dark to see with the lighting
Mate the episode was great but blue eyes was all the hint for ayra to be the one to do it in that way? Felt so rushed and not well thought out. This plot was done so poorly
Oh, and I have to mention Arya playing Hitman and sneaking around the wights in the library when they're a hivemind that clearly have the numbers to just easily flood every room in Winterfell is insanely dumb as well. Especially when overwhelming numbers is their whole MO.
We see them pouring into the castle, but then a handful are just moseying around like bad stealth ai in a videogame? Really?
Hard disagree, and I still find enjoyment in this episode and have come back to it on it's own.
The "blue eyes" foreshadowing is objectively horrible. Especially when they could've done much better foreshadowing with her rejecting the "God of Death" and affirming her identity by fleeing the House of Black and White. But there weren't any satisfying connections drawn to make it good foreshadowing. Jon was legitimately foreshadowed to kill the Night King since his first appearance.
"But Game of Thrones always subverted expectation" No, every major death and event was foreshadowed very well and made sense within the worldbuilding. It just didn't rely on tropes and plot armor. When someone was in legitimate danger within the world, you knew the plot would choose internal consistency over tropes and plot armor. Arya killing the Night King was either D&D subverting expectations for the sake of subverting expectations, not internal consistency, or they absolutely fumbling the foreshadowing and build up GRRM intended with her killing the Night King. There's a world where Arya killing the Night King made sense, but the only "foreshadowing" was in season 3. That along with her jumping off an invisible bouncy house across dozens of white walkers is laugh out loud levels of absurdity.
Other legit criticisms:
Winterfell's plan of putting all of their Army outside of the castle and sending the Dothraki out is entirely moronic and unjustifiable. Battle of the Bastards gets a pass because of Ramsey's hubris and the difference in numbers.
The constant cuts between a giant horde of wights to characters fighting them one-on-one is youtube fan trailer levels of silly.
And putting every main character in the front line just for... pretty much all of them to survive and get inside as they're being overrun is dumb.
Bran's plan to just sit by the tree and warg a bit makes no sense.
So many characters are in situations where death is inevitable just for them to reappear in another scene is awful.
Hiding women and children in a crypt... to protect them from a dude who's main ability is RAISING THE DEAD.
There are a lot of problems. And all of them should've been obvious before the script got to a second draft.
Arya could've killed the Night King and the Prince Who Was Promised prophecy could've been a red herring, and we still could have had a good and satisfying conclusion, the execution of the writing was just an objective sh*tshow.
The episode is still good for the action and spectacle. The 8th season up until the finale is good in terms of spectacle and action, but the writing just got progressively worse until the horrid last episode.
This is exactly how I felt after this episode. I honestly liked this show up until the last few minutes of this show. The exact same issue I had with the show at this point.
Also, the "missed opportunity", no its not a missed opportunity. Its not a bloodline trait. It just doesnt make sense, so it wasnt an opportunity to begin with.
Dumb comparison I know, but still;
Its like in Marvel claiming "Such a missed opportunity for SpiderMan to not Hulk Out". Its not missed, cuz it just doesnt make any sense, there never was any clues to hint to this in the first place. OR BUILDUP
Also coudve taken out at least 5 mins of that whole arya segment in the library.
Yes you are correct it was both, stylistic choice and to save money on cgi
The god of light, the god of death, the 3 eye raven, the night king.. the gods are playing their game and humans are just their puppets.
That kind of storytelling is why I really enjoy Brandon Sanderson too.
Blue Eyes
Oh btw when you said "Lady Misandry" I literally lol'd
I am sorry the aria part is just stupid. she had no real involvement in this part of the story. It would make more sense for Jon to do it or die doing it
All your opinions and complaints are valid. Can't wait for you guys to watch the absolute ass conclusion to this show
the reason why the night king was immune to fire and why aria killed him was because the writers thoughnt it made too much sense if they can be burned and jon kills him.
even george rr martin said that this was a bad descision
I was fine with him being immune to dragon fire tbh, because that would have been too easy, but I did want to see Jon fight the NK
Maybe aria was in the knight kings groups and wearing one of the faces from the technique she learned from the many face god, she impersonated many people in the series maybe she impersonated a knight kings lackey
In order to do that, she would have had to have a dead white walker's face. They explode into ice when they die. Also I think the woosh of wind and the white walker looking over is supposed to be her running past him to get to the Night King
7 seasons build up and it ended in 1 episode most of which we barely could see. What a great episode, lol
I kinda got spoiled on who killed the night king just a couple days ago. But someone who studied the ways of the many faced God against a being that doesn't let death be permanent is kind of fitting
You two sound exactly like the rest of the world did when this first aired. Imagine waiting 2 years from season. 7. At the time the creators got a deal for a star wars trilogy people thought they rushed things. Hbo wanted more seasons.
Can someone explain to me why we built Jon up for 8 seasons just so he can yell at a dragon while the real shit was happening?
Also did Bran totally sacrifice Theon, send him to his death when he just needed to wait for like one more minute? Crazy
The fact that you're getting more angry about it as you talk about it is funny as hell.
This is somehow not the worst episode in Game of Thrones. Brace yourselves.
Also, here's a little bit spoil lore drop that is pretty cool and is lame that it wasn't made a part of the resolution of this episode:
There is a legend across all of the cultures in the world with a very specific event and resolution. It has a different name for every culture. The legend goes a long night/the end of the world will come but Azor Ahai/The prince who was promised will arise with his sword and plunge it in the heart of his loved one. When he'll pull it out, his sword, Lightbringer, will be blazing on fire and he will use it to strike down the evil of the long night. It is what lady Melisandre was referring to when she was in Stannis' head. She made him pull a sword from a fireplace and call it Lightbringer. She thought that he was /was making him into Azor Ahai. When he died and she managed to resurrect Jon, she thought she found the real prince who was promised, as the Lord of light wouldn't just bring back anybody for any reason. They'd have to have a purpose to serve.
Therefore, it's been heavily implied through legends and through aspects of the story that Jon had a bigger part to play, and given his ancestry, it is expected that he probably would be Azor Ahai, and that he might've needed to plunge Longclaw into the heart of Daenerys to make Lightbringer and with it, kill the Night's King. Instead, apparently Arya was the prince who was promised all along and the dagger that was used to try and assassinate Bran in Episode 2 of season 1 was actually Lightbringer. Loved one's sacrifice free.
when i saw the light in the office i knew they where cooked its so dark this episode
Totally hear where y'all are coming from and 100% agree about lighting. Also I do think either more people should've died or they should've written it so they weren't so trapped - I love him but like Thormund surviving is wild. The main thing i'll disagree with is Arya. HOWEVER when it first aired I basically felt exactly like y'all did, most poeple do I think, so I get where you're coming from. In the show it's established time and again, that Arya will do this - from her training as a faceless man to be a silent assassin, from the God of Death 'Not Today' thing, Melisandre's line in like season 3 or whatever about shutting blue eyes and her staring at Arya then and now, and inspiring Arya in this episode. Bran handing her the dagger and looking at it as if he knew something, Bran givng Arya the time she needed by inspiring Theon. It does all connect. I think it was slightly rushed still, like most things this series, but it's all there.
There's another thing as well! Jon is who we all wanted to fight the Night King obv. But thinking about it - how few times has GoT actually given us the epic deaths that we want? The show is pretty consistent in killing our main character great warriors in pretty un-epic/lame/surprising ways, right? So the Night King not going out in some great duel between him and Jon, whereas in other shows and films it would, it actually is consistent with GoT's MO. Jon tried to have that fight, the Night King knew he would lose so avoided it. With a lot of reflection, hindsight and a few rewatches, I think I'm actually quite happy with this now, it feels very GoT-y.
Anyways, ramble over. Thanks as always for a great reaction, and also yeah totally agree Jon being immune to fire would've been a wild moment oml
Yean Arya´s training, Bran handing her the dagger and Bran sending Theon to his death is not an establishment for her killing the night king. That´s a stretch.
Especially since Jon´s whole story line is his build up to be the leader against the night king´s army. Building a story for 7 seasons and making that whole build up of Jon pointless just for the sake of beeing surprising and trying to not do what everybody wanted is not "GOT-y". It´s bad writing and defeats the whole purpose of a story build up.
According to interviews with the show runners, they only decided on it being Arya 3 years before S8 aired (roughly when S6 was airing). They said they did it because Jon was 'too obvious'. Considering in the books, it's implied that the faceless men worship the great other (who does not appear in the show but is basically the driving force behind the WW there as the Night King doesn't exist), the faceless man stuff is probably not preparing her to be a saviour of any kind. The eyes line from S3 was also not at all originally meant to forshadow this (mainly as it came out several years before they made the decision), which is why originally the order was brown, blue, green with no emphasis or importance given to blue at all, it was just an acknowledgement of the sheer number of people she would kill.
Also, considering his touch burned Bran in S6 from being so cold, Arya at least should have definitely dyed there as he grabbed her by the throat. I can see her maybe taking him out at the same time (if they really wanted her to do so) but her surviving that is insane (but then so is most of the others this episode managing to survive)
Surprise! Surprise the debtor easily willing to make the ultimate sacrifice
How did the wight they brought to Kings Landing not break out of a wooden box, but the Stark wights in the crypt were able to burst through STONE???
Bodies decompose slower in the cold so maybe they’re more powerful in cold places. That wight was in the south and was weaker…..I guess. I’m really reaching tbh
But he was in the north when they first put him in the box. And since you're bringing up the bodies decomposing slower in the cold, I'm pretty sure that's the only way the wights are able to exist. In the books, there are no skeleton wights, just decomposing wights, that still have muscle tissue and stuff to hold their bones together. And the reason they exist in the cold is because the cold keeps them together like that longer. So, that's another reason the bodies in the crypts shouldn't have come to life, at least most of them had to have been skeletons by this point
All of this so that they could hurry up and get the show over with so that they could get to their Star wars movies that will never happen
I feel like a lot of this episode can be summed up by "cool? yes. meaningful? not really."
you guys should check shadiversity's winterfell depiction from the books, its crazy. he 3d modeled it, for example, winterfells walls could hold potentially up to 100k archers just on the walls alone, its truely a staggering fortress in the books
also winterfell in the books was far, far more well defended then the movie winterfell, winterfell in the books had several layers of walls, the outer walls being 80 feet high, inner walls 100 feet high, and they had a large deep moat in between the walls
best episode of the series. its soooo good
To have Jon be the driving force behind amassing the living to combat the army of the dead for 8 seasons and he doesn’t even face the Night King in battle once. Major L choice.
Why was ghost there?
Why do a cavalry charge when no one can see anything and cavalry charges are good for breaking the sides of formations?
You can always do more so I understand that they ended the episode to fast.
But Aria killing the night king was decided many seasons before this. Red witch said that she will close blue eyes many season before.
Begging y'all to look up what a "Retcon" is lol
According to interviews with D&D, they decided it would be Arya 3 years previously, which would have been roughly whilst Season 6 was airing. They also said they decided on Arya mainly as they thought Jon would be too obvious, and they wanted to 'subvert expectations'. The line in S3 from Melisandre was just about the sheer quantity of people Arya was going to kill, which is why the original went 'Brown eyes, Blue eyes, Green eyes, eyes you'll shut forever'. Blue eyes wasn't given any special weight in that scene whatsoever, it was only after they decided on Arya being the one to do it that they started looking for some kind of justification and thought they could twist it to be good enough.
Respectfully that one off line doesn’t justify her eliminating an antagonist she had no connection to whatsoever.
I mean they are both forces of death. The many faced God just has a more permanent aspect to death.
The scene with the dothraki sword flames going out looks cool, but when you stop to think about it, that was a horrible strategy
Ahhh yes this episode! The one where I screwed up my TV settings because it was to bloody dark to see shit!
For the targaryens, they have some level of heat resistance, but that's mostly limited to just being able to stand higher temperatures. GRRM confirmed dany being fire proof was a one time thing with the magic of bringing the dragons back, the second time in the show is purely by the creators and has no basis in the book.
All I can say is that...we're sorry
I'm not one to be overly pessimistic but it truly is downhill from here. Could it have been worse? Sure! Could it have been better? Absolutely!
I guess you guys didn't notice, but the other dragon just fell out of the sky and landed along with Jon. It didn't get killed.
As for the episode, not seeing the Night King at least have one sword fight with Jon and him maybe losing so then he raises the dead would have been better. Jon actually killing him would have been the best option. Melisandre telling Arya she would close blue eyes forever was supposed to be the clue. Also the fact that Sam lived while all these seasoned warriors died was super dumb. They definitely fumbled the ball with a lot of decisions. It literally felt like the Lord Of Light brought Jon back to kill the Night King and we never got the payoff.
But man, you guys are in for some frustration with the remaining episodes if this episode set you off.....
Maybe killing the night king isn’t why Jon was brought back in the first place.
These are the stages of last season of thrones grief. Imagine if sogeking defeated Kaido while Luffy was distracted.
Y’all ABSOLUTELY wrote a better ending for this shit lmao, it would’ve been dope. Pretty sure most of us kinda created that same story to some degree. It was cool in the moment, but afterwards it was like fuuuckkk….they really fumbled it man
John is not immune to Fire. This is a trait associated with the Targareon line/lineage, but is not unique to them or all of them in the books/tv show. In Season 1 of Game of Thrones, Jon burns his hand while trying to save Lord Commander Mormont. Former King, Aegon V, in the books, died in a fire. What this means is probably this was a magical genetic trait in a region of the world that slowly disapeared and was isolated to one region (Old Valyria) and when they came to Westeros, it was lost through mariage to the wider westrosian genes.
They're meant to be resistant to fire and heat, but not all to the same degree. Daenerys being immune only happened the first time in the book, and it was basically a result of the comet, the dragons, the blood magic, and only a little bit her Targaryen lineage. Unless when the next book comes out (if ever) George makes her immune a second time, like the did in the show
"During an online Q&A in 1999, A Song of Ice and Fire author George R.R. Martin said that it is a "common misconception" that Targaryens can survive fire. He apparently felt very strongly about this, using all caps to make his point. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE!"
good news guys, the dark saga where nobody could see anything has ended. It's only worse from here. Enjoy the ride down the drain.
I think they could've had Arya do her leap attack and gets caught, but have Jon come in and save her right as the Night King is about to kill her. Then before that, have Jon confront the undead dragon and be engulfed in flames, but reveal that he has the immunity and he sprints for Bran
I think you can both see why a lot of people lost their shit over this season and you're only halfway through it. More delights to come!
The military tactics displayed in this episode are just ridiculous though. The showrunners sacrificed the Dothraki and most of the Unsullied, plus all their trebuchet, by putting them all OUTSIDE the defensive fortifications and having them die instantly for cool visuals. Sorta stupid, really :)
"im getting more mad as we talk about it" is literally the reaction the whole world had to season 8. The more you think about the details in-between the expensive epic moments, the worse you realize it is. And once that starts happening, little details that wouldn't matter become so much worse. Just have some solace that the GOT showrunners are no where near HOTD writers room and they have a whole complete story they are adapting.
"All of our dead will be added to their army." then also "Let's put the ones who can't fight into a crypt."
Putting them in the crypto should have worked since that wight they took from the North didnt break out of the WOODEN FUCKING CRATE it was in as it traveled the continent to reach King's Landing, but OOOPS I guess it was a weak wight or the Starks just had that dang in 'em to break through stone...smh in rage.
I'm enjoyuing the commetns so much and I am less than half into the reaction. I've been waiting so long to see their reaction to this episode.
Well the red woman said to arya that shes killed brown eyes green and blue eyes and she can see the future so when she said that i instantly thought arya is killing the night king i never watched this season so arya killing the night king makes sense bc the red woman told john he had a purpose she never said the purpose was killing the night king
Normal people have blue eyes too. The idea that it was always going to be Arya because of Milsandre saying that to her in the earlier seasons is a retcon imo
Yes they do but she smirked at aria when she said blue eyes
They said that they didn't even decide Arya being the one to kill the night king until season 6. So the eye color was not related
the idea that melisandre knew Arya would kill the night king is still half-baked though, especially the entire "prince who was promised" plotline ultimately led to nothing
Well that's later said to translate to Prince or Princess, and considering her brother's become king in the north, she could technically be considered a princess of sorts. But that's definitely far fetched
It had a lot of potential. I like, if I had to quantify, about 60% of this episode but there's just so much that doesn't fit the build ups we spent 7 seasons looking forwards to.
The thing you guys are forgetting is that the Red lady had the premonition about Arya killing brown, green and blue eyes. She even repeated it in this episode and she knew immediately what to do. I know you guys have praised this series for being a bit like One Piece in storytelling and my opinion is that they did just that in this situation. I understand that a full on battle with Jon and the Night King would've been awesome to watch, but this to me is still great.
(Also when I watch it on my tv on my own it isn't that dark, it's still to dark, but I had trouble watching your recording comparing it to my own copy.)
arya had one piece of foreshadowing that alluded to her killing the night king in this entire show's run, meanwhile Jon is out here with much much more, including the same Melisandre regaining faith after successfully reviving him. Also, the blue eyes thing is barely foreshadowing, a lot of normal people have blue eyes, the idea that Melisandre knew Arya was set to kill the night king WHILE believing Stannis was the prince who was promised is incoherent at best.
Yeah, the blue eyes thing being "foreshadowing" for Arya doing this is bs, it's a retcon
The only time Jon snow fights the Night King is in a game ad, They use a good amount of the trailer for the game on a What if jon snow actually did something against the guy he was built up to fight the whole show
oh you guys mentioned it lol
This is one of my top10 episodes
Please start watching the BTS from these episodes its so funny in a sad/infuriating way how the showrunners defend their decisions for this season. (Dany kinda forgot)
"haha you didn't expect her to do it" is the reason writers choose Arya. They said this lol
When it’s so dark you think they’re reacting to your reflection 😂. Really though just a little brighter and it would’ve been fine. I remember watching this when it aired just being frustrated. Genuinely had me thinking my tv was messed up at first.
bring back the podcasts, i can listen to you two with your takes on shows and movies all day
Definitely the tv
"I love what's happening." Followed by "I get angrier the more we talk." Sums up this season for many. This is the subverting expectations and reaction montages season.
Ruff: "Are we just going to end this in one episode?"
Boom: "After seven seasons? That'd be crazy!"
And that's the point where I started laughing. Yes it would be, wouldn't it?
02:17 ahh the throwback XD i remember the discourse over the darkness this episode had. it all went donwhill from here on now.
There's too much shit for one comment. I would need to give a three hour lecture about how bad this episode is.
I love this episode!
The death of the Night King is such an anime death! A little flow of wind, somebody noticing, get's stop, do cool trick, death!
Why would you insult a anime death like that lol 😝